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nomo
Average Member
812 Posts |
 Posted - 12/18/2008 : 19:35:30
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quote:
Originally posted by oion
I was just thinking it would be hilarious if ... 4) the classic subnotebook is reinvented through repeat evolution, perhaps at a lower base price point compared to the last evolution.
I'm hoping Fujitsu jumps to #4 and introduces a mid-level 9-10" machine at about 2/3 the price of a P1630.
BTW, I'm pretty happy with the growth of netbooks even if I don't plan to purchase one. First, the increasing popularity of small computers will eventually lead to better selection in the sub-notebook category (as the previous post describes). Second, perhaps the industry may finally be maturing and device makers will start addressing some long term legacy issues. |
Edited by - nomo on 12/18/2008 19:42:49 |
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oion
Advanced Member
USA
2231 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2008 : 21:06:44
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Speaking about that profit margin...
Tech's hope in 2009 - or curse? (12/24/08)
quote:
Tech Daily: Sales of under-$400 computers are expected to soar in the coming year - much to the delight of one tech giant and the dismay of just about everyone else.
Fun times, folks, fun times. It's always enjoyable to watch technology evolve like this with no idea where it's heading. After all, netbooks were intended to only be a supplement to desktops and other laptops, not a full-on replacement.
I suppose it's no surprise that it was Intel that coined the term. |
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NigelS
Senior Member Member
Canada
1339 Posts |
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oion
Advanced Member
USA
2231 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2009 : 12:19:14
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quote:
Originally posted by NigelS
Some news nuggets - Windows 7 Beta is benching faster than XP and Vista - should be great for everyone but especially for netbooks.
Yes, but what's the interface like and how backwards compatible is it on top of expected bloat? That's all I want to know. The worst-case scenario is that, for a theoretical future computer purchase I cannot yet afford, I'd have to dual-boot. I still laugh at the general failure of Vista, though.  Excuse me--ha ha ha ha ha.
quote:
Sony's netbook debut will have a 1600×768 resolution and get this: it's called the P-Series. HP has already done this and get this: it's called the 2140 (love those vintage Lifebook identifiers).
This is all sorts of wrong.  Seriously, what the hell? Can't these giants think of better series names for their trinkets, or is this an overt attempt to erase competition in our beloved subnotebook niche? Honestly. And if the Sony netbook screen size is still around the 10-inch mark, 1600 resolution will be completely illegible. What I find amusing is that even at current netbook defaults, people would normally need to tweak all their settings to make the display bigger. Hmmmm. These are all legitimate usability issues, but it seems technology design goes for the cool factor before functionality factor in many cases. I'm still waiting for that 17-inch folding LCD in a 3-lb subnote package.
Here's something to chew on for the more philosophical of us: When is a netbook no longer a netbook? Well, it's just an Intel marketing term, folks.
Here's another question for that burgeoning young-people-with-entitlement-issues segment: Do laptops and cell phones and other electronic gadgets actually increase student productivity and learning? Especially with internet access (netbooks ho!), I'd argue "absolutely not" since I've seen collegiate students in action with their hands on computers in the classrooms. Of course, research is still being done in that area, but I digress.
Still watching.  |
Edited by - oion on 01/07/2009 12:20:12 |
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nomo
Average Member
812 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2009 : 13:49:32
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quote:
Originally posted by oion
And if the Sony netbook screen size is still around the 10-inch mark, 1600 resolution will be completely illegible.
This is, afterall, the same company that created the headache-inducing 1024x600 4.5" display on the UX-series UMPC.  The Sony screen is reported to be around 8", which translates to about 7.2" x 3.5" with 0.11mm dot pitch. By comparison the Fujuitsu P16-series 8.9" display is about 0.15mm/pixel. |
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oion
Advanced Member
USA
2231 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2009 : 14:38:53
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quote:
Originally posted by nomo
quote:
Originally posted by oion
And if the Sony netbook screen size is still around the 10-inch mark, 1600 resolution will be completely illegible.
This is, afterall, the same company that created the headache-inducing 1024x600 4.5" display on the UX-series UMPC. The Sony screen is reported to be around 8", which translates to about 7.2" x 3.5" with 0.11mm dot pitch. By comparison the Fujuitsu P16-series 8.9" display is about 0.15mm/pixel.
I'm convinced the Sony marketers+engineers do not actually use these things. 1600 resolution at EIGHT inches? What's the point of a "technological improvement" if people can't actually use the technology to its full capacity without some major setting hacks? (That's a rhetorical question...)
And if more younger people end up using these, I wonder how much damage they'll accumulate from eye strain. Certainly older folks who already have trouble with tiny print wouldn't be able to use these at all.
Curiously, while I wouldn't foresee netbooks falling to the 800x600 resolution, 1024 is still doable, you know. These manufacturers are acting like lower resolutions are shamefully backwards--no, it's dependent on screen size and usability first, dammit. Not that I'd buy one anyway. And I believe 1024 is still the most common overall resolution in the world right now anyway.
1024 at 8 inches is probably still pretty tight, though. (Anyone have a netbook and a ruler to measure standard on-screen font sizes in MS Word or something? LOL) |
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tmt
Advanced Member
2763 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2009 : 14:42:44
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quote:
Originally posted by NigelS
Sony's netbook debut will have a 1600×768 resolution
No way. That's a ridiculous aspect ratio and at the resulting 177dpi the 10" diagonal
screen would be 9"wx4.33"h. The photo alone disproves that, let alone the presence of
a touchpad.
I bet (assuming it exists at all) that it's 1366x768, a very Sony-typical HDTV aspect.
That would make the glass closer to 8.75"wx5"h (156dpi, still quite high).
What I want to know is, if Sony is getting into netbooks, where will they find the
margin to load them up with all their Sony "value add", i.e soak-the-consumer? Make
it up on batteries and other peripherals? I don't think so.
Tom. |
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nomo
Average Member
812 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2009 : 15:35:04
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The jkontherun article linked above suggests that the Sony device has an 8" display with a form factor similar to the HP Jornada. If so then the display height would be proportionately shorter than a conventional aspect ratio display.
FWIW, for me the optimal portable display is 10" with 1280x768 resolution -- pretty much like the Fujitsu P7-series. |
Edited by - nomo on 01/07/2009 15:38:39 |
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oion
Advanced Member
USA
2231 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2009 : 17:02:49
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quote:
Originally posted by tmt
What I want to know is, if Sony is getting into netbooks, where will they find the
margin to load them up with all their Sony "value add", i.e soak-the-consumer? Make
it up on batteries and other peripherals? I don't think so.
Tom.
That's a good point. If "netbook" by definition means "cheap in all aspects," I don't possibly see how Sony, by definition "expensive and proprietary," can get an edge in profit margin when industry pundits have already been saying that vendors are losing because netbooks have such a small margin. Huh? 
Nomo: The P-series 10.x-inch 1280 native resolution screens are good quality for me as well, but I still end up tweaking browser minimum font settings, Windows XP text size settings, and the video dpi resolution (to 120). I'm not that old, either, though my eyesight is meh.  |
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nomo
Average Member
812 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2009 : 19:39:49
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From cnet asia:
 
There are more photos at engadget, but they look like computer generated models. Sony's launch is expected tomorrow. |
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nomo
Average Member
812 Posts |
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oion
Advanced Member
USA
2231 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2009 : 21:28:17
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Price: $899 to $1,499
Not a netbook.... IT'S A REMAKE OF THE PICTUREBOOK, HELLO. |
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nomo
Average Member
812 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2009 : 21:31:44
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quote:
Originally posted by oion
Not a netbook.... IT'S A REMAKE OF THE PICTUREBOOK, HELLO.
Actually, I think that's why it's called the "P-Series".
Info now available at sonystyle.com. |
Edited by - nomo on 01/07/2009 21:33:07 |
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oion
Advanced Member
USA
2231 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2009 : 21:48:24
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Yes, I realized that after posting. But stop calling it the P-series, Sony.  Honestly, it's annoying that people/vendors are making out netbooks as this totally new thing. They're the short-lived mininotebooks from the '90s made cheaper. 
Well, I suppose the Sony VaoiP definitely isn't cheaper, though. The ol' Picturebook was 9-inch @ 1280x600. 8-inch @ 1600x768 is just...seriously stupid for something portable. What? However, the VGA-out is where the actual usage potential is, I suppose. If you use it as a portable hard drive with a screen for emergency use, it would remind me of the old Sharp Mebius with its dock. If you have decent screens at home and at work, all of this would be pretty nifty, I suppose. (Do the other "netbooks" have VGA-out? I can't be bothered to check, I guess.)
But overall, that new VaioP seems mind-bogglingly underwhelming for a "new" design when you take into account the target market (cheapness) and its price. And its lineage from the Picturebook... somehow, I find that very amusing. |
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nomo
Average Member
812 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2009 : 22:11:36
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| I expect it to be a niche product -- a "responsible" purchase for enthusiasts who would buy a $3k-$4k TT if the economy was better. If/when Sony eventually releases a dual core version it will be a good business companion. |
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tmt
Advanced Member
2763 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2009 : 22:21:34
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Buy one fast if for some strange reason you like it. That thing is GONE and oughta be.
I know I've seen that thing before. Kind of a checkbook-sized chiclet keyboard calculator
circa 1980-something. Well hey this one has tons of memory. Just about as useful, though.
Ick.
Tom. |
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NigelS
Senior Member Member
Canada
1339 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2009 : 01:54:14
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My my don't we all enjoy looking down on everything when we're someplace 'up'... (Although it's fun to belong to a trend 5 years before everyone else though, I must say...;) In any case don't run down the Picturebook! It was Sony taking leadership and chances with Crusoe, which I admired them a great deal for. They sold a lot of those things, and it would have been my first computer if LeoG hadn't turned me towards the Light. As for the display exaggerations - the link explained the Sony 'ad' was just a roughdraft placeholder for the real deal. I like the up coming HP Mini 2140 options in that regard: 10.1-inch diagonal LED display with 16:9 aspect ratio available in either standard-definition (1,024 x 576) or high-definition (1,366 x 768) resolutions:
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2009/090106xb.html |
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mr1
Average Member
USA
724 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2009 : 02:49:57
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I see no VGA out port! Why Vista instead of XP?
The original Picturebook also turned me toward LeoG and Fujitsu.
MR1
5010D-60G HD,1GB RAM XPP
12/2005 P1510 30GB (Upgraded to 60GB HD)1GB Ram XPT BT Portreplicator |
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tmt
Advanced Member
2763 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2009 : 07:21:34
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Heck with Windows altogether, somehow it doesn't make sense on this device. This isn't a
laptop at all. It's a special purpose device, for what special purpose I have no clue.
Tom. |
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tmt
Advanced Member
2763 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2009 : 07:26:08
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Oh wait a sec. I know what they're doing.
quote:
The spacing between keys has also been engineered to help reduce typing mistakes making it perfect for long fingernails.
It's Sony's answer to the iPhone, without the phone of course, somehow thinking that women
want a windows laptop instead but don't want to carry it. Uh huh.
Tom. |
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NigelS
Senior Member Member
Canada
1339 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2009 : 09:59:59
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| Hmmm.... I've been meaning to grow my fingernails, too. This is fate! |
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nomo
Average Member
812 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2009 : 10:34:35
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quote:
Originally posted by mr1
I see no VGA out port! Why Vista instead of XP?
It comes with a display/LAN adapter that plugs into a dedicated port. The port is shown in a labelled image on the SonyStyle web site under "Specifications". The adapter is shown on the Sony Japan site.
With respect to Vista versus XP, I believe Microsoft currently only allows XP to be sold on computers with displays no greater than 1024x600 and 1GB of RAM. |
Edited by - nomo on 01/08/2009 11:21:04 |
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nomo
Average Member
812 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2009 : 10:55:03
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quote:
Originally posted by NigelS
I like the up coming HP Mini 2140 options in that regard: 10.1-inch diagonal LED display with 16:9 aspect ratio available in either standard-definition (1,024 x 576) or high-definition (1,366 x 768) resolutions: http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2009/090106xb.html
The HP 2140 specs look pretty good. I'm in the minority, but I'd gladly pay a little more for a better processor, though.
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nomo
Average Member
812 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2009 : 11:04:46
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The Sony P-Series is listed on the Dynamism web site with 1.33, 1.60, and 1.86 GHz Atom processors.
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oion
Advanced Member
USA
2231 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2009 : 11:44:27
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quote:
Originally posted by NigelS
My my don't we all enjoy looking down on everything when we're someplace 'up'... (Although it's fun to belong to a trend 5 years before everyone else though, I must say...;) In any case don't run down the Picturebook! It was Sony taking leadership and chances with Crusoe, which I admired them a great deal for. They sold a lot of those things, and it would have been my first computer if LeoG hadn't turned me towards the Light.
Yes, that's part of the irony for me. Transmeta had a real hand in promoting low-power processing for ultraportables, Sony clearly helped that budding technology in the first place, and now we've come full circle with an Intel Picturebook II. Or something like that. I remember seeing a Picturebook back in the day when a coworker got one brand new. Let's just say our corner of the office didn't get much done for an hour or two as we fought each other to play with it.
quote:
Originally posted by tmt
Heck with Windows altogether, somehow it doesn't make sense on this device. This isn't a
laptop at all. It's a special purpose device, for what special purpose I have no clue.
Tom.
A glorified PDA? Super-cellphone? I believe in Japan, cell phones are used more for texting and email than actual calling (I seem to remember seeing some kind of statistic, anyway). For firing off the emails, I suppose it would be fine but somewhat overkill. As for targeting women... I hate how the industry likes painting something pink while half the time downgrading hardware and then says "Look, it's for wimmenz!"
But anyway, like I said when taking the VGA connection into account, I could see it as a mobile between work and home if you have a set of peripherals in each place. Hook it up to an actual, usable monitor and keyboard, and it would probably work fine. Portable hard drive with an emergency screen and internet connection--obviously, it doesn't have enough power to replace a desktop with gaming/developing/video editing capabilities, but if all you're doing is document storage and word processing on top of net surfing, I guess it's okay.
As a more random side note, I think my P-2040 is built better than my P-7230. The keyboard feels cheaper on the 7k and the upper left side actually squeaks when I press keys up there. Anyway. I couldn't play with the keyboard on the netbook I saw at Target because they had a slab of plastic covering it, but I'm sure it'd feel cheap too.
quote:
Originally posted by nomo
quote:
Originally posted by mr1
I see no VGA out port! Why Vista instead of XP?
It comes with a display/LAN adapter that plugs into a dedicated port. ...
With respect to Vista versus XP, I believe Microsoft currently only allows XP to be sold on computers with displays no greater than 1024x600 and 1GB of RAM.
Maybe in the netbook market, but Dell still sells both laptop and desktop systems with WinXP due to major consumer backlash when Microsoft/Dell made their first Vista announcement. It's a kick in the teeth that it costs about $100 more for the downgrade, though (technically you get XP installed and both XP and Vista on discs, I suppose). At least this netbook thing is helping Linux. Hmm, I wonder how Panasonic is doing... Oh, look! OQO is still alive and just released a UMPC with a OLED touch screen.
Sorry, getting off track there. |
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Netbooks have arrived
