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oion
Advanced Member
USA
2231 Posts |
 Posted - 09/18/2009 : 13:44:19
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quote:
Originally posted by NigelS
I dunno - I'm much more pessimistic now that I've been to the shops and seen most of the latest netbooks. They look great in photographs, but in person they look like the chunky matte-plastic playthings you see on the floor of any child's day-care or doctor's office. Fisher-Price designed the form-factor. I lament the lost prestige of the ACTUALLY expensive (as well as expensive appearance) of the original miniature notebooks. Form factor without any Bling cache, but broadcasting that kind of thoughtful intelligence that suggests 'thoroughness' for lack of a word. I like stuff that hints BETTER things are around the corner. What we have here suggests merely 'Lots & lots MORE things' are around the corner (and none of them are going to be any better).
Well, I do agree with the old school higher quality, of course. Even within the old subnotebook evolution, though, there was a smaller trend towards cheapness. Who else thinks that the old Fujitsu Lifebook P-2000 models felt more solid (better keyboard feel, etc.) than the later plastic P-7000, for example? And some plastics are just *better* than others. Other niche subnotes like the Panasonic R/W didn't seem to cheapen, although I don't know where those models are now in terms of development.
But I guess while traditional subnotebooks were real machines, netbooks seem to fall under the category of "trinket" or "gadget." The market audience is also different from traditional subnotes, though (school kids). At the rate they're going, the question is whether they'll increase in actual performance measures rather than just stuffing more "features" under the hood like you say. Personally, because of the heavy marketing towards a specific cheap demographic (kids), I don't foresee "business netbooks" being terribly successful. Irony.
But the cheapening tendency is true in all consumer goods. Cheap, more is less, bling bling break...  Maybe the real "prestige" these days is not in computers--which is a mandated norm for middle-class folks--but in ridiculously trinkety ultra-phones. Of course, I don't have such a thing. |
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EB1
Average Member
USA
774 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2009 : 00:33:36
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P5K was the last of the P series to look and feel well made IMO.
EB |
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NigelS
Senior Member Member
Canada
1339 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2009 : 15:59:51
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quote:
Originally posted by EB1
P5K was the last of the P series to look and feel well made IMO.
EB
It was pretty rock-solid! |
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NigelS
Senior Member Member
Canada
1339 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2009 : 16:10:07
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Even though I hate the stubborn way that netbooks cling to their crap-is-beautiful/cheap+small-is-who-we-are definition, I must say that any quality add-ons are mighty noticable. HP breaks away from the dreary-ness by lasering in on the display. Same old crappy Atom-based setup, but with hi-res 11" display and the new Nvidia Ion. When I first saw the P2120 in action I was sold on the display first - still applies with any 10-11" machine. I hope this is as good as they say - http://blog.laptopmag.com/hands-on-with-the-hp-mini-311-ion-netbbok
http://www.engadget.com/photos/hp-mini-311-hands-on/2283579/ |
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nomo
Average Member
814 Posts |
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NigelS
Senior Member Member
Canada
1339 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2009 : 12:43:39
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| Netbook parameters: a low-powered processor that limits their use to surfing the Web, checking e-mail, editing documents, and watching standard-def video (sounds like the original Lifebook!) Well, if we are to stick to this definition then improvement mods are limited to battery / RAM / hard drive / and graphics chips. Maybe we will see some advances after all... here is the LapTop review of the 311 Mini w/ ION chip - looks like a major jump in the $500 machine - http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptop/hp-mini-311.aspx?page=1 |
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oion
Advanced Member
USA
2231 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2009 : 18:20:10
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quote:
Originally posted by NigelS
Netbook parameters: a low-powered processor that limits their use to surfing the Web, checking e-mail, editing documents, and watching standard-def video (sounds like the original Lifebook!) Well, if we are to stick to this definition then improvement mods are limited to battery / RAM / hard drive / and graphics chips. Maybe we will see some advances after all... here is the LapTop review of the 311 Mini w/ ION chip - looks like a major jump in the $500 machine - http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptop/hp-mini-311.aspx?page=1
This begs the question, who in their right minds would EVER want to edit video on a netbook?  |
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nomo
Average Member
814 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2009 : 01:35:57
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quote:
Originally posted by oion
This begs the question, who in their right minds would EVER want to edit video on a netbook?
Video playback is probably the hook, but I could see young kids toying with editing. So many people have cell phones with cameras that a netbook might be used for basic editing and clean up of low res web videos.
BTW, does HP 311 refer to "third generation, 11-inch netbook?" The PCMark05 score of 1,910 is getting close to a P1620 (2,113). And hey, they moved the mouse buttons!
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NigelS
Senior Member Member
Canada
1339 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2009 : 03:28:49
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Who would edit video on a netbook? Film makers with less than $500, that's who! Just teasing - I get the point. The graphics chip outstretches the rest of the unit's hardware capabilities. (It's a start, though.)
Off topic: I was talking to a salesperson who, naturally endorsing the trend for machines with NO optical drive, says, "No need for a disk drive anymore - everything is downloaded" left me with my jaw on the floor. Aside from the obvious (that salespersons will say ANYthing that takes one more step towards a commission) what do you all say? Any consideration to the idea that optical drives are old school & passe?
Sony's new atom-powered $1300 non-net-notebook is posted: http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=8198552921644667494&N=4294954366#specifications |
Edited by - NigelS on 10/08/2009 09:24:43 |
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mr1
Average Member
USA
724 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2009 : 20:46:06
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quote:
Originally posted by NigelS
Who would edit video on a netbook? Film makers with less than $500, that's who! Just teasing - I get the point. The graphics chip outstretches the rest of the unit's hardware capabilities. (It's a start, though.)
Off topic: I was talking to a salesperson who, naturally endorsing the trend for machines with NO optical drive, says, "No need for a disk drive anymore - everything is downloaded" left me with my jaw on the floor. Aside from the obvious (that salespersons will say ANYthing that takes one more step towards a commission) what do you all say? Any consideration to the idea that optical drives are old school & passe?
Sony's new atom-powered $1300 non-net-notebook is posted: http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=8198552921644667494&N=4294954366#specifications
My P1510 is what, 3 years old? I have rarely missed having an optical drive and miss it less as time goes by. With the capacity of thumb drives increasing as the price decreases, what kind of future can optical drives have? And yes, we can download most things fairly quickly.
That said, having an optical drive available on my newer S6510 has been very convenient. My bottom line; I think they are on the way out but still lurking like the elephant in the room.
Optical drives will do the same thing that cassette tapes, floppy drives and legacy printer ports have done over the past few years.
Here is a little more support information that I stumbled across.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/173460/are_dvds_nearing_the_end.html?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a41:g4:r31:c0.000000:b28260810:z0
MR1 5010D-250GB HD,1GB RAM XPP P1510 30GB Upgraded to 60GB HD)1GB Ram XPT SP3,BT Portreplicator, S6510 P7500 2GB Vista
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Edited by - mr1 on 10/12/2009 12:51:44 |
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StR
Junior Member
115 Posts |
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NigelS
Senior Member Member
Canada
1339 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 12:04:06
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"... thinnest, lightest, and most expensive netbook also lasts nearly 10 hours on a charge."
Sony's X gets good press (aside from their seemingly eager desire for the premature death of the optical drive):
http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/sony-vaio-x.aspx?page=3
In regards to the aforementioned op-drive death - has anyone else ever been bothered by the lack of advancement in laptop internal optical drives over the years? I must say that I have always kept my own external drive drive in arm's reach at home. Internal notebook drives are excruciatingly slow in comparison (not to mention noisy/hot/distracting). My internal drive is only welcome when I am away from home (or from a wall-socket). |
Edited by - NigelS on 10/22/2009 12:06:46 |
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oion
Advanced Member
USA
2231 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2009 : 20:57:44
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quote:
Originally posted by NigelS
"... thinnest, lightest, and most expensive netbook also lasts nearly 10 hours on a charge."
Sony's X gets good press (aside from their seemingly eager desire for the premature death of the optical drive):
http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/sony-vaio-x.aspx?page=3
In regards to the aforementioned op-drive death - has anyone else ever been bothered by the lack of advancement in laptop internal optical drives over the years? I must say that I have always kept my own external drive drive in arm's reach at home. Internal notebook drives are excruciatingly slow in comparison (not to mention noisy/hot/distracting). My internal drive is only welcome when I am away from home (or from a wall-socket).
$1,499.00 is not netbook territory. That's a cheap subnotebook, and Sony is just pulling everyone's leg. Legs. Stupid Sony. Dumb reviewers too. 
I don't know what kind of advancements in optical drives you mean. If you mean less-energy-sucking, then that could certainly be improved, but it seems to me companies are more interested in improving batteries, which is more practical. After all, optical drives are on the way out, as mr1 points out. Still, even if it's no longer standard in most laptops the way floppy drives are no longer standard on desktops (THAT took a long time), I foresee people will still keep their burners on hand. And compared to the floppy drive, it'll probably take another decade to die out anyway.
As for laptop HDDs (you're not clear which type of drive you're talking about towards the end there), maybe they'll eventually be replaced by flash drives, but only if the longevity is proven to match traditional hard drive technologies. At least the battery life should be better. |
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nomo
Average Member
814 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2009 : 19:44:09
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quote:
Originally posted by oion$1,499.00 is not netbook territory. That's a cheap subnotebook, and Sony is just pulling everyone's leg. Legs. Stupid Sony. Dumb reviewers too.
On one hand I appreciate what Sony is doing by spec'ing SSD drives and low-watt CPUs and (I think) no fan. On the other hand, as a consumer willing to buy a $1500 small laptop, I'd ultimately rather spend $200-$300 more for a 2-3GHZ dual core CPU and not be bogged down with an unresponsive system.
quote:
Originally posted by NigelS
"In regards to the aforementioned op-drive death - has anyone else ever been bothered by the lack of advancement in laptop internal optical drives over the years?
Not really, but I agree that I/O has not progressed nearly as much as I would expect over the past two years. I don't use optical drives very much; the external USB DVD R/W for my P1610 has only been used two or three times in 1.5 years. With the recent generation of SSD's peaking over 200MB/s, Fujitsu's dedication to SATA 150 is becoming a constraint. The slow bus speed to internal SD card readers is annoying, too. USB flash drives can provide good transfer rates, but there doesn't seem to be much industry momentum for using thumb drives for media distribution. Flash may not be cost effective yet for high volume products (movies, audio CD's), but for software distribution it could be feasible. Hope to see technical advancements in 2010 (at least on high end systems -- not so much on netbooks). |
Edited by - nomo on 10/25/2009 00:01:58 |
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StR
Junior Member
115 Posts |
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nomo
Average Member
814 Posts |
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NigelS
Senior Member Member
Canada
1339 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2009 : 18:26:08
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quote:
Originally posted by StR
I am surprised that nobody has posted anything about Fujitsu P3010.
(Is anybody alive here?)
http://store.shopfujitsu.com/fpc/Ecommerce/buildseriesbean.do?series=P3010
Well, when you're right - you're right. Totally spaced on the day the new Fuj's were announced. If anything it adds to the Death of the Optical Drive discussion - I was wondering aloud why I was never able to get an internal OD that has speeds above 8x (16x or 32x would be nice although I imagine there is a reason those high speed external drives need a wall socket power source).
In any case the new Fuj specs say it has a "...DVD Sharing application for glomming onto optical drives over your LAN..." which explains a little more about where we are all heading on this topic.... Cheers |
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NigelS
Senior Member Member
Canada
1339 Posts |
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NigelS
Senior Member Member
Canada
1339 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 16:19:29
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| I just got back from the shops where I saw the HP Mini, the Acer 1410, and the Sony X. The Mini and the Acer are stunningly large. The keys are large (on the HP they couldn't be bigger) and the spacebar on the Acer actually squeaks it is so cheaply designed. I saw right away the necessity of economy of frame on any ultra-portable. Fujitsu has always had that part right. If these units sat on your table with your lunch they would take up the real estate of another plate. The Sony X is elegant and fine (perfect) in person. For an Atom machine it is priced only for people who have lost any sense of what a dollar is worth - and the heavy-weighted "extra battery" dock is like having an anvil tied to it's bottom. Holiday season shopping is looking pretty dire. |
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nomo
Average Member
814 Posts |
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NigelS
Senior Member Member
Canada
1339 Posts |
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nomo
Average Member
814 Posts |
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nomo
Average Member
814 Posts |
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nomo
Average Member
814 Posts |
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StR
Junior Member
115 Posts |
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Topic |
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Netbooks have arrived
